Baseball Crank
Covering the Front and Back Pages of the Newspaper
October 12, 2009
BASEBALL: Winningest

Trivia question of the day: name the winningest pitcher of the decade, 2000-09. Bonus: name the top 10.


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1 Andy Pettitte 148
2 Randy Johnson 143
3 Jamie Moyer 140
4 Roy Halladay 139
5 Tim Hudson 137
6 Roy Oswalt 137
7 C.C. Sabathia 136
8 Mark Buehrle 135
9 Greg Maddux 134
10 Mike Mussina 134

Posted by Baseball Crank at 6:14 PM | Baseball 2009 | Comments (29) | TrackBack (0)
Comments

Do you think a stat like that is enough to maybe get into the HOF?

Posted by: dch at October 12, 2009 6:37 PM

dch - Ask Jack Morris that question.

Posted by: Jerry at October 12, 2009 6:55 PM

I was just about to say the same thing.

Posted by: Crank at October 12, 2009 6:59 PM

If only wins mattered as a baseball statistic.

Posted by: David at October 12, 2009 7:59 PM

Do you guys think Morris should be in? from what i remember yes-but that is based on watching him play- his stats I am not that familar with.

Posted by: dch at October 12, 2009 10:07 PM

Do you guys think Morris should be in? from what i remember yes-but that is based on watching him play- his stats I am not that familar with.

Posted by: dch at October 12, 2009 10:07 PM

Added stat Pettite is now tied and probably should be soon the all time winingest pitcher in post season.

Posted by: dch at October 12, 2009 10:12 PM

Some more stats 94 games above .500 and I think .625 winning percentage-1 more good season we get the whole Mike Mussina thing of being 100 games over .500 and he, unlike Mussina, has 2 20 win seasons. If he had stayed with the Yanks for those 3 seasons......

Posted by: dch at October 12, 2009 10:19 PM

I think Morris and Pettitte are pretty similar - workhorse pitchers for mostly good teams who won a lot of games with good winning percentages, but who were never really thought of as HOF-caliber in their primes. Neither would be near the bottom of the Hall if elected, but I would not vote for them.

I think a lot of people give Morris extra credit for looking mean and having a good mustache, but I try to stay away from that.

Posted by: Jerry at October 12, 2009 10:35 PM

Certainly Pettitte will never get credit for either of those things.

Posted by: Crank at October 12, 2009 10:39 PM

I have to tell you that look he gives with just eyes showing above the glove is pretty intimidating-but no moustache.

Posted by: dch at October 12, 2009 11:11 PM

The difference between Morris and Pettitte is Morris was dominate for about 5 years, Pettitte has put up the same numbers for what about 12 years now? Neither should be in the HOF, If Morris had put up his numbers for 10-12 years you could make a case. Pettitte won't make it becuase he has never been the number one guy.

Posted by: maddirishman at October 13, 2009 5:38 AM

I wonder how many pitchers would trade their Hall of Fame status for Pettitte's four WS rings.

Posted by: MVH at October 13, 2009 9:46 AM

i've stated this before but i'm waiting for the high and mighty sportswriters to boost pitchers of the steroid era if they are going to downgrade hitters. Petitte's story is not finished yet.

Posted by: sonofbrocklanders at October 13, 2009 10:15 AM

When was Morris even dominant for five years? I guess 83-87 was his best five year stretch. But he never lead the league in ERA once during that span. Never was even higher than fifth.

I'd probably vote for Pettite before I voted for Morris. (I'd never vote for Morris though.) I bet Pettite gets in eventually. Mussina is clearly better than both of them.

Posted by: per14 at October 13, 2009 10:53 AM

This has a simple answer. The two Yankees, Pettitte and Mussina, go in the HOF, and Morris, the non-Yankee, is left out. I'm satisfied. :)

Posted by: MVH at October 13, 2009 11:14 AM

To me, Mussina is a little above the bar, and the other two are a bit below it. Other than having pitched for extraordinarily good teams, Pettitte seems to me more in the mold of a Jerry Koosman than a Bob Gibson or Jim Palmer.

Posted by: Jerry at October 13, 2009 1:16 PM

Over the last 15 years-you need to win a playoff or WS game-Pettite has to be in your list of the top 3 or 4 pitchers. The only game I can really remember him spitting the bit was game 6 of the 2001 WS when he apparently was tipping his pitches.

Posted by: dch at October 13, 2009 3:16 PM

Pettitte has been a very solid postseason pitcher, though not on the level or Schilling or Smolz. He's had an ERA above 8.00 in five different postseason series. But his overall record (36 starts, 15-9, 3.89 ERA) is pretty much in line with his regular season performance, which is mostly what you'd hope for.

Posted by: Jerry at October 13, 2009 3:23 PM

"36 starts, 15-9, 3.89 ERA"

Wow. That's incredible. Pettite has pitched an entire extra season with his postseason starts.

Posted by: per14 at October 13, 2009 4:49 PM

The difference between Morris and Pettite in terms of the HOF is Morris has Signature Wins (including one massive one) and Pettite really doesn't. Name me Pettite's greatest win that everyone knows. Morris? Touchdown and spike it in the end zone. Moments matter.

Posted by: jim at October 13, 2009 7:22 PM

Morris, in an era in which low-2 ERAs were fairly common, never had an ERA below 3. His adjusted ERA is 105 (i.e., 5 percent better than league average) where most HOF pitchers with about his win total are 120 or better (as Mussina is). He pitched great in some big spots, but so did David Wells and Mickey Lolich.

As far as Pettitte, I think it hurts his case that he's almost never been regarded as the best pitcher on his own team, and not just because he happened to be on the same team as a Seaver or Carlton for fifteen years. There's a reason he's started so many game threes in the postseason.

Posted by: Jerry at October 13, 2009 8:16 PM

Hmm. I had the top three correct, just in the wrong order...

--

I always thought Morris was JUST shy, but if push came to shove, his big WS moments might get him in.

If looks have any impact on the vote, Morris' scowl-y visage should get him in over Don Sutton's perm.

--

But, if there's a serious discussion of Pettitte or Mussina for the HOF here, consider this:

* Morris was the winningest pitcher of the 1980s... 162 wins would put him as far ahead of Pettitte as Andy is above #10 Mussina.

* Morris led the Leage in wins (twice), Ks, shutouts, was a five-time all-star and also 4-time World Series Champion (WS MVP as well)

Posted by: Mr Furious at October 14, 2009 1:15 AM

A signature win for Pettite-Game 4 ( I think that was the one)-1996-World Series.

I would also not that while yes for the majority of his tenure he was not considered the #1, though some years he was, part of that problem is the Yankees constantly signing people Cone, Clemens, David Wells, Sabathia, etc-Between the Yanks and Astros he had Clemens ahead of hime for what 6-7 years.

BTW guys I am really enjoying this discussion since every one is arguing in a weel reasoned manner.

Posted by: dch at October 14, 2009 10:13 AM

I think Morris should get in, with Pettitte not quite there yet though he is closer than I had thought.

In general, Pettitte played on better teams and had Rivera and Lidge as closers, both of which helped his win totals. His WS win in '96 was game 5 (8 shutout innings in a 1-0 victory), though in game 1 of that WS he gave up 7 earned in 2.1 innings. He was top 5 for Cy Young 4 times; led the league in wins once and was second once.

Morris had decent closers (Aurelio Lopez, Wilie Hernandez, Tome Henke, Rick Aguilera), but several cuts below Pettitte's. His WS signature win was the clincher and one of the greatest games of all time in a great series. He led the league in wins twice and was second twice. He finished in the top in Cy young voting 5 times. Morris was always the ace of the staff, pitching frequently against the other team's ace.

I probably over-rate Morris because I love how tough he was and under-rate Pettitte because he is a Yankee. But Pettitte has a pretty good case, better than Mussina's in my view.

Posted by: magrooder at October 14, 2009 11:35 AM

Yeah, it's not a Signature Win if you can't remember what game it was.

Posted by: jim at October 14, 2009 12:49 PM

I thought being off by only one game after 13 years was pretty damn good.

Posted by: magrooder at October 14, 2009 1:26 PM

No on Morris. Yes, he is credited with winning a lot of games. However, most statistically aware baseball fans know that wins are more of a team stat than an individual stat. Ignore W/L records and compare Morris to Blyleven (nearly contemporary pitchers) in the other statistical measures. You'd immediately reject Morris and enshrine Blyleven. Mussina and Pettitte are both also clearly much better pitchers than Morris.

Posted by: Largebill at October 14, 2009 2:51 PM

I would guess CC.

Posted by: Mike at October 15, 2009 6:29 AM
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