Baseball Crank
Covering the Front and Back Pages of the Newspaper
November 13, 2009
WAR: The Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Lower Manhattan Reunion Tour

Pardon me if I am seeing red this morning:

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, alleged mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, and four others accused in the attacks will be put on criminal trial in New York, Attorney General Eric Holder is expected to announce later Friday.

WHAT IN THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

So, Barack Obama will be staging his own New York production of Chicago, with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed as Roxy Hart ("You had it coming, you had it coming, you only have yourselves to blame...." ). We will be treated to months upon months of front page headlines giving a platform to this lunatic war criminal. The courthouses and City office buildings in lower Manhattan (City Hall, the state courts, the immigration offices, the Court of International Trade, the US Attorney's Office, the DA's office, and the main city office building that does marriage licenses and the like are all within about a two-block radius of the federal courthouses and the Metropolitan Correctional Center) will be snarled with massive security, as if lower Manhattan needs more traffic and more armed men. We'll have to have pretrial hearings on the inevitable countless motions about how KSM was apprehended and the evidence against him collected, undoubtedly to the detriment of vital sources of intelligence, like when we lost the ability to track Osama bin Laden by cellphone after our tracing of his calls was revealed by a prosecution under the DOJ Criminal Division then headed by...Eric Holder. And that's even before he starts in on the sob stories about being waterboarded. I'm not seriously concerned that KSM stands any chance of being acquitted, but a hung jury? It only takes one person with extreme political or religious views, one juror who just can't abide the death penalty (even assuming Obama's DOJ pursues it). Just imagine the controversy, if there are Muslims in the jury pool, over what questions prosecutors are permitted to ask them and whether they can be challenged. And of course, it sends the message to our enemies that there's nothing you can do to us that will get you sent through a process rougher than the one we used on Michael Vick or Martha Stewart.

I know I have spoken and written many rough things about Obama, but as Michael Moore would say, most New Yorkers voted for the man - why is he doing this to us?

It's impossible, really, to caricature this White House; even Josiah Bartlett didn't run through this many liberal stereotypes in his first season. Obama needs new writers. Blow up the World Trade Center and kill 3,000 Americans? Jail! Don't buy health insurance? Jail! Win the Nobel Prize for doing jack squat. Travel to Copenhagen to beg and grovel unsuccessfully for the Olympics, and pledge to go visit Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but blow off traveling to Berlin to commemorate the victory of freedom over Communism (then give a tepid speech on the subject that refuses to acknowledge Ronald Reagan). Commemorate the 70th anniversary of the Soviet invasion of Poland by unilaterally abandoning missile defense installations in Poland. Insult and disdain one faithful ally after another - Britain, India, Israel, Poland, Colombia, you name it - and cozy up to our enemies, with nothing to show for it - nothing to show for anything he's done in foreign affairs. All but ignore democratic protests in Iran while supporting an illegal effort by Honduras' president to stay on beyond the end of his term. Suddenly complain about corruption and electoral fraud in Afghanistan, while seeking the favor of Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadenijad and Vladimir Putin - heck, Obama endorsed half a dozen people in Chicago more corrupt than Hamid Karzai. On and on and on we go, with President Apology constantly straining to run down his country's record and talk up the propagandized view of history of its enemies. He's taken more time to "evaluate" General McChrystal's recommendations about Afghan policy than it took George W. Bush to invade Afghanistan and capture Kabul after September 11. It would be funny if it wasn't tragically stupid and bound to get people killed. There is no mistake of our past that Obama is unwilling to remake.

If there's an upside to all this, after months of watching KSM up close, even liberal New Yorkers may be ready to give Dick Cheney a medal.

Posted by Baseball Crank at 9:15 AM | Law 2009-14 • | Politics 2009 • | War 2007-14 | Comments (90) | TrackBack (0)
Comments

I'm glad I work in midtown - downtown is going to be a mess.

That said, while I think it is likely you are right that the trial will become a circus, in some ways I am glad that Obama and Holder are doing this. Let's see who's right - the left-wing crowd or us? The left has been telling us for years that it will be perfectly fine to try these guys in normal civilian courts. Let's find out.

Posted by: A.S. at November 13, 2009 10:23 AM

That's probably the right attitude, A.S..

I remember reading in the Post or another local paper the week of 9/11 that the Feds intended to move the one-eyed shiek to or from the Tombs (can't remember.) I thought, "Well, we'll be lucky if nobody tries some outrageous stunt to spring him."

I still wonder if there was any connection between the two events.

Crank, you sound miffed this morning.

Posted by: spongeworthy at November 13, 2009 11:30 AM

Am I the only one who sees a discontinuity with Holder seeking the death penalty for these guys, while at the same time is going to prosecute the CIA for torture?

Will Holder not use any of the information the CIA got out of KSM et al because it is 'tainted' by torture?

Wonder how it will play out...

Posted by: Peter at November 13, 2009 12:17 PM

When was KSM given his Miranda rights? Was he interviewed after that, and did he waive those rights. How about being interrogated before that. How about having been held for years without charge. Talk about a violation of the right to a speedy trial. Any competent defense attorney will seek dismissal on so many different grounds.

These guys should be before a military tribunal. And if (when) convicted, shot.

Posted by: rbj at November 13, 2009 12:21 PM

Meh. While neocons will flex their predictable outrage muscles over trying alleged 9/11 conspirators in NYC, I think it is a good thing to try them in our court system (which I agree is not perfect, but is far, far more perfect than the shady military system).

I personally think the suspects are innocent until proven guilty; I feel this is really just a dog and pony show and that the suspects are being railroaded. I voted for Obama but I am severely disappointed he is continuing to prosecute people who had confessions tortured out of them. I believe this is tyrannical behaviour.

I think the best way to serve justice and accountability is for the USA to stop engaging in behavior that provokes attacks on NYC and other American interests. We need to 1) live up to our values, and 2) stop sticking our nose where it does not belong.

Posted by: jjb at November 13, 2009 12:25 PM

All of these terrorists will probably walk. Very little or none of the evidence will be allowed to come in. This is simply insane. I feel so very sorry for all the familys of the victims of these terrorists. As a retired Firefighter it disgusts me to no end. In my entire life I have never seen anything like what is happening to our beloved country. It's sickening.

Posted by: Sparky at November 13, 2009 12:29 PM

NO TRIALS IN NYC www.thebravest.com

Posted by: Heidi at November 13, 2009 12:34 PM

Sorry Crank, but if you dare criticize Dear Leader there is only one explanation. You are a racist.

Posted by: Fugate at November 13, 2009 12:36 PM

Awesome post! You hit the nail on the head "What is wrong with these people"

COMMON CENTS
http://www.commoncts.blogspot.com

Posted by: Steve at November 13, 2009 12:38 PM

On the first day of the terrorist trial in New York, Obama should show his toughness by buzzing Manhattan with Air Force One.

Posted by: Exurban Jon at November 13, 2009 12:38 PM

There is NO WAY these terrorists should be given rights under OUR Constitution, PERIOD. This is an outrage and a travesty.

jjb, you are the example of one reason this country is going down the tubes right now (which is going to change next November, btw) I don't know how you sleep at night with views like that. If you think the US is so bad, move. When you post that you just couldn't stand to live in a country as bad and evil as the US; that you moved to Afghanistan or some other country because of your principles, then you can be all higher than thou about how bad the US is.

Posted by: DJ at November 13, 2009 12:39 PM

jjb: wow you sure put us in our place! Rolling my eyes here, sport. Sorry but these are terrorists, NOT American citizens. That Eric Holder and Obama are presuming to say they have the same rights we have as American citizens is insulting. Engaging in behavior that provokes attacks on NYC? SHAME ON YOU! Go hide your head you fool, for that statement.

Posted by: Sara at November 13, 2009 12:40 PM

Hey Obama,
These guys are terrorists who want to kill us. They are not protected under the U.S. Constitution. The bill of rights do not apply to them. Bring them down to ground zero in front of a firing squad and send a message to the rest of these wack jobs.

Posted by: DukeNY at November 13, 2009 12:44 PM

jjb is the audience Holder's playing to. Neither of them, of course, are or have been at any personal risk from terrorists. But they have their heartfelt opinions and they vote and make donations.

Posted by: spongeworthy at November 13, 2009 12:46 PM

Why is he doing this to you? Simple. Because a majority of voters in New York are fundamentally stupid people as evidenced by the kinds of politicians they repeatedly vote into office at the city, state and federal level. My only sympathy goes out to the families and friends of those who paid the ultimate price on 9/11. By the way, the best evidence of the stupidity of New Yorkers is the fact that they voted into the Senate carpet bagger Hillary Clinton, on whose watch as co-president along with Bill, most of the run up to 9/11 occurred as terrorists trained under their nose in this country. In spite of numerous terrorist attacks against us during the 90's and a declaration of war by Al Qaeda in 1998, the Clinton's failed miserably at improving our intelligence gathering capabilities and, like our current Bufoon-in-Chief, treated terrorism as a criminal matter rather than an act of war.

Posted by: Jerry M at November 13, 2009 12:47 PM

Not all of the alleged terrorists are getting a criminal trial. Only those who the Justice Dept. thinks will be convicted. Others are getting military tribunals (those the Justice Dept. aren't sure can be convicted in criminal trials, but think can be convicted in military tribunals).
Further, there is a third group of alleged terrorists who will get neither a criminal trial or military tribunal. These are those who the Justice Dept. doesn't think they can convict in either a criminal trial or military tribunal. They will be continued to be held in indefinitely without trial.
Sweet America. Tiered justice is here.

Slightly off-topic.
Crank, you seem to be scared by terrorists, yet some of your arguments make them out to be pretty stupid. In particular your continued support of torture (it's illegal, by the way) in ticking time-bomb situations. Don't you think diabolical terrorists could throw the interrogators off the right track by telling them about a ticking bomb in NYC, while the real bomb is in D.C. (for instance)?
Seems you don't think terrorists are all that smart enough to come up with this kind of scenario.
Which leads me to my question, why are you piss-your-pants scared of people you don't think are too smart?

Posted by: Berto at November 13, 2009 12:49 PM

spongeworthy: You're right. But they're wrong... and it's sad it's gotten to this point in this country. I guess it goes back to what we've heard so much over the last year, elections have consequences. Well, we're now suffering from those consequences.

Posted by: DJ at November 13, 2009 12:51 PM

jjb: These terrorists were not tortured to "confess".

Engaging in behavior that provokes attacks on NYC and other American interests means allowing women to have educations, careers, and wear whatever they want and for homosexuals not to be executed for being gay. What you advocate is shari'ah compliance.

Our values don't include letting other people telling us how to live, what not to say, or how to vote. Our nose is where it is because 3000 plus of our citizens were brutally murdered by fanatics who hate your touchy feely guts.

People like you with that attitude are going to get more Americans killed.

Posted by: Amor de Cosmos at November 13, 2009 12:54 PM

UFB!!! Politically puts a few more nails in theObama/Dem coffin, but more importantly will injure our intelligence community and create horrible legal precedents. In addition, as mentioned above, if you are giving these people access to the federal courts, how can you deny access to the others? Frigging lefty amateur hour.

Posted by: dch at November 13, 2009 1:00 PM

Here's a thought, what if one or all of these terrorists are acquitted on some technicality and walk? It may not be very probable, but it is possible.

IMHO, if something like that happens, this President which is where this decision came from, should be impeached and thrown out of office.

Posted by: DJ at November 13, 2009 1:00 PM

Let's not rush to judgment. These are just "alleged" terrorists.

Posted by: JWF at November 13, 2009 1:02 PM

Berto, I have seen you advance some bizarre arguments over the years, but arguing that stupid people - or for that matter people who believe stupid things - are not dangerous may take the cake.

Besides, the record pretty well supports that groups like Al Qaeda may have a lot of not very bright foot soldiers, but it only takes a few clever higher-ups to make them deadly.

Bad guys frequently lie to interrogators, whether under duress or not. But history tells us they give good information plenty of times in either circumstance, and standard methods of corroboration are then used. Really, this is simple stuff.

Posted by: Crank at November 13, 2009 1:02 PM

DJ said: "If you think the US is so bad, move."

Wow, I've never heard that one before for questioning USA's policies. If anyone hates living in America, though, it is you. Think about it. You have to live with people who raise questions about USA's policies.

Posted by: jjb at November 13, 2009 1:03 PM

Amor de Cosmos said: "Our nose is where it is because 3000 plus of our citizens were brutally murdered by fanatics who hate your touchy feely guts.

People like you with that attitude are going to get more Americans killed. "

Not true. Even a cursory reading of history shows that NYC and American interests were targeted long, long after USA decided to stick its nose where it didn't belong.

I'm not bothered by holding a consistent attitude on certain things like our value system. It's what makes me human. If it gets people killed, it's due to the terrorists' rejection of empathy, not my embrace of it.

Posted by: jjb at November 13, 2009 1:09 PM

My only sympathy goes out to the families and friends of those who paid the ultimate price on 9/11.
------------------------------------
Agreed, especially with the word "only".
The rest of the 9/11-fetishists shoud STFU about 9/11. It wasn't that important.

Posted by: Berto at November 13, 2009 1:09 PM

"I think the best way to serve justice and accountability is for the USA to stop engaging in behavior that provokes attacks on NYC and other American interests. We need to 1) live up to our values, and 2) stop sticking our nose where it does not belong." (jjb@12:25--)

Ah yes, the old "it's our fault" canard. They were provoked, and so they HAD to react. If we treat them nicely, I am sure they'll act with peace, love, and change their bombs into flowerpots. Everybody join in a round of Kumbaya, Allah (peace be upon him) while the unicorns gambol around us.

Posted by: pseudotsuga at November 13, 2009 1:10 PM

>>I'm not seriously concerned that KSM stands any chance of being acquitted, but a hung jury? It only takes one person with extreme political or religious views, one juror who just can't abide the death penalty (even assuming Obama's DOJ pursues it)

Oh come on, nobody could be that stupid.

>>I personally think the suspects are innocent until proven guilty; I feel this is really just a dog and pony show and that the suspects are being railroaded. I voted for Obama but I am severely disappointed he is continuing to prosecute people who had confessions tortured out of them. I believe this is tyrannical behaviour.

I stand corrected.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 13, 2009 1:10 PM

impeach now

Posted by: pat at November 13, 2009 1:12 PM

The "it's our fault" crowd is even more ridiculous and contemptible in this war than in the Cold War or WW2. We're dealing with ancient ideologies that long predate the existence of the USA, and that are equally hostile to India, Israel, Russia, Spain, Catholics in Nigeria, etc. Although admittedly the modern variants do owe a lot of their historical ideas to propaganda developed by the Nazis and/or the Soviets.

Posted by: Crank at November 13, 2009 1:16 PM

I know, that's something that's said quite a bit, my apologies for using a common phrase.

I'm not saying you don't have the right to question US policies and everyone is entitled to their opinion. And you're right, I do find that these days I am questioning a LOT of the policies coming out of this Whitehouse.

I'm just saying that in my opinion, YOU'RE WRONG. And me and a whole lot of people like me are soon going to make sure that people that have these kinds of beliefs; that think terrorists should enjoy the same rights as American Citizens are kept in a very small minority without the power to enact these types of policies.

Posted by: DJ at November 13, 2009 1:16 PM

Sorry, my last post was directed to jjb. Just to be clear. :)

Posted by: DJ at November 13, 2009 1:19 PM

obama and crew also need this circus to distract from all their other wonderful projects coming down the road to crush the US.

Posted by: frankg at November 13, 2009 1:34 PM

Terrorists Tried in U.S. Courts Trigger Constitutional Protections Strapped to Their Chests http://optoons.blogspot.com/2009/10/terrorists-tried-in-us-courts-trigger.html

Posted by: Lee Russ at November 13, 2009 1:39 PM

Send every bleeding heart libtard to some crappy backward middle east country to live under sharia law. Every one of the liberal jackwads would find their damn heads chopped off in the first 24 hours. Islamic culture respects only one thing....power and force. If you think they hated us before, they hate us worse today. They once respected our brute force that could be unleased. Today, we are nothing but pansies in their eyes. Thanks Libs!

Posted by: Harry Truman at November 13, 2009 1:54 PM

Sorry "Harry Truman" but that is nonsense.

The jingoistic attitude of treating the middle east as our weapons testing facilities is the reason they target America.

It may be un-PC to say this, but the reason America is targeted is due to blowback from our unnecessary and provocative meddling in places we simply do not belong.

Posted by: jjb at November 13, 2009 1:58 PM

>>We're dealing with ancient ideologies that long predate the existence of the USA, and that are equally hostile to India, Israel, Russia, Spain, Catholics in Nigeria, etc.

Indeed.

Hey jjb who wrote this:

that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise.

Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin in a letter to the US Congress in 1786.

Prior to independence, US ships were given protection from Islamic nations/pirates by the English Navy. After, the US paid "tribute" to Islamic leaders for the privledge of not being attacked while sailing by their countries. When he became President, Jefferson put a stop to this process and instead used the funds to build ships and a Navy to fight back. You know the words from the Marine Hymn "...to the shores of Tripoli"? Where exactly do you think Tripoli is?

But this country never lacks people who know nothing of history and who believe that appeasment actually works and America is always wrong. Today, these people are known as Obamabots.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 13, 2009 2:00 PM

You can't use the Obamabot canard on me, since I don't support his milquetoast policies.

I don't think treating the middle east with respect is appeasement. All I advocate to stop provoking people from hating us is pretty simple: 1) living up to our values, and 2) stop sticking our nose where it does not belong.

Posted by: jjb at November 13, 2009 2:11 PM

Thousand of america G.I. have been water boarded,lots of them get it in A I T and you have these special unit,it is not torture their no broken bones,dis location joint,no missing boby parts.Japanese had a spcial way to do it fill your stomach full of salt,then jump on your stomach this is torture,the way america doese it is not torture.The only reason it held any water is because John McCain said it was torture,He has wanted to bring G W B down for a long time

Posted by: avery at November 13, 2009 2:12 PM

Thousand of america G.I. have been water boarded,lots of them get it in A I T and you have these special unit,it is not torture their no broken bones,dis location joint,no missing boby parts.Japanese had a spcial way to do it fill your stomach full of salt,then jump on your stomach this is torture,the way america doese it is not torture.The only reason it held any water is because John McCain said it was torture,He has wanted to bring G W B down for a long time

Posted by: avery at November 13, 2009 2:12 PM

>>I don't think treating the middle east with respect is appeasement. All I advocate to stop provoking people from hating us is pretty simple: 1) living up to our values, and 2) stop sticking our nose where it does not belong.

Yes, you've said this before while blithely ignoring the fact the Islamic states have been attacking infidels, including The Great Satan, for centuries with absolutely no provocation. Indeed, many believe it is there duty as a Muslim. This isn't conjecture, it's fact.

Perhaps you could give me some examples of how we have not shown respect to the middle east and where we have stuck our nose where it doesn't belong.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 13, 2009 2:17 PM

Crank, I agree with you most of the time, but here I have to say you're WRONG. dead WRONG.

It was Velma Kelly who sang, 'They Only Had Themselves to Blame," not Roxy Hart.

Posted by: DubiousD at November 13, 2009 2:24 PM

So Crank, if you'll pardon the cliche, were you absent the day they taught law at law school?

Which part troubles you more, that a trial in NYC will cause problems for Manhattanites or that there is a trial at all? What makes our country great is that we provide due process even to the most heinous of criminals. I know you wing nuts like to do away with such niceties when they are inconvenient, but we now have a President who understands and follows the rule of law.

And, if you are worried about "giving a platform to this lunatic war criminal," why in god's name would you want to give Cheney a medal? He is the worst war criminal in american history.

Posted by: magrooder at November 13, 2009 2:25 PM

The most amazing thing about this decision is the obvious unintended consequences.

Lets examine what we know for a fact:
1. These are islamic fanatics who have demanded to be executed, to be awarded their 72 virgins.
2. Al Qaeda has some semblance of sleeper cells in the USA, in Virginia, Minnesota, Oklahoma, and oher places, including the metro NYC area.
3. The #1 matrydom goal would be to blow up the courtroom with KSM inside during trial.

Is it not clear to anyone who can think that there will be an attempt to create mayhem to coincide with the trial? (esp. attempts to blow up the courthouse with a fertilizer-type truck bomb.)

And I have no hope that the incompetent assembly of leftist bureaucrats we call government will catch such a plot. Shut down manhattan delivery trucks for months while this fiasco of a trial plods along? Not going to happen.

Posted by: trantor at November 13, 2009 2:34 PM

JJb:

People with your beliefs are insane, pathetically phony and hypocritical. You have absolutely no regard for people in the rest of the world. You say you do, but will do nothing to help them because that would be sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. And as far as living up to US values, what do you mean because I think that those values are liberty, equality and freedom for all. Obviously you don't support those values. If you are not happy with your country, then move. Lots of countries that hate the US because of their freedom and wealth will be happy to welcome a likeminded person like you. I just hope that you are not a female or a homosexual.

Posted by: canuck at November 13, 2009 2:37 PM

I'm definitely not a fan of this criminal trial. It's going to be everything Crank said it will be.

So far, no one has pointed out the irony here. If you really wanted to give the guy a fair trial, would you hold it in NYC, the very place of the 9/11 disaster??

Posted by: MVH at November 13, 2009 2:39 PM

I don't know what makes me angrier: the White House decision to make KSM a mere "suspect" or Derek Jeter's fourth Gold Glove award.

Posted by: JE at November 13, 2009 2:47 PM

Well, if there is a trial nothing moves below Canal Street without major security checks, so that screws up the Holland and Brooklyn Battery tunnels as well as the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges; no traffic, and probably no pedestrians down Worth Street or Center Street, so that will limit access to the neighboring Federal Building, Department of Heath and the Manhattan DMV (though admittedly, nothing could slow the latter down any more than it is already) and fun for the people living in and working around the western edge of Chinatown; massive checks on the IRT and BMT subway lines that run virtually underneath the Federal Courthouse in Foley Square and probably at least a dozen other things to mention.

That's just the logistical nightmare. Sneak one 9/11 Truther onto the jury if he or she is able to conceal their beliefs, and you're in for a prosecutorial flustercluck that will make the O.J. trial look like model of efficiency. No way Holder and Obama let this thing go over in the middle of an election year in 2010, especially once they (or other Democratic poltiicians) figure out there's very little up side to this for them, but a huge downside if the trial turns into a media circus or attracts other events, such as Islamic fundie hostage taking (even in another location) in an effort to try and influence the public trial.

Posted by: John at November 13, 2009 2:48 PM

No one could have predicted* the frightened little bed-wetters would be upset about this.

* I appropriated this saying from the Bush Administration.
As in, No one could have predicted they'd use airplanes as weapons or No one could have predicted the levees would fail during Katrina or No one could have predicted the looting and breakdown in security in Iraq after our invasion.
It's a cute li'l way to say "it was well known".

avery,
Excellent job in your comment on how the US doesn't torture. Especially when you leave out the part about detainees dying during interrogations.
Are you a "journalist" on cable news?

Posted by: Berto at November 13, 2009 2:52 PM

trantor-

Let me give you a couple of other unintended consequences.

1. Precedent. Any genius lawyer (as magrooder seems to think Obama is) should understand the very dangerous precedent this trial will set. Obama has blurred the line of what enemy combatants can expect from the US. This will have serious consequences for our military and our justice system not to mention our finances.

2. Our intelligence gathering ability, tactics and procedures will be exposed for all the world to see. That's all the lawyers for these scum have to work with. They've already plead guilty in a military tribunal so watch for the lawyers to try and put the gov't (the gov't of the evil Bushitler that is) on trial. Swell, nothing better in a time of war than further emasculating our intelligence gathering ability.

3. This one I happen to like. This going to have a devastating affect on the Obama administration and donks in general. This trial will stir up emotions and open old wounds and Americans will rightly hold Obama accountable for it.

The only reason for this trial is to appease the loons on the left and keep banging the Blame Bush drum. He's done some really stupid things so far but this is the cherry on top of his stupid sundae.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 13, 2009 2:59 PM

Canuck said: "If you are not happy with your country, then move."

Again, wow, I've never heard that before.

Posted by: jjb at November 13, 2009 2:59 PM

So, it's now very clear, the underlying reason behind this "trial" is just another appeasement of the radical, wackjob leftist, anti-war contingent of the Democratic party. BIG surprise there!

Here's some red meat for you Berto. If we gained actionable, accurate information, that helped us to prevent more terrorist attacks here in the US, I DON'T CARE what they did to these terrorists to get it.

Here's some prognostication for you. All this is just fuel on the fire. This is only going to serve to fire up more independents and moderate democrats that already regret voting for Obama last year, to vote against incumbents and democrats in 2010. Keep up the good work! Obama is sealing the fate of the Democratic party for many years to come.

Posted by: DJ at November 13, 2009 3:08 PM

jjb just wants to haul up the gangplank on the rest of the world. And if country A is led by a man who persues peace and country B is led by a man that likes his political opponents in pieces - not our issue. These people like Darfur bumperstickers. Actually helping the people of Darfur? Not so much.

Posted by: EBJ at November 13, 2009 3:24 PM

These terrorists have already pleaded guilty to a military tribunal. We should have taken the guilty plea and sentenced them to death by firing squad.

These terrorists don't belong in the US, as they are enemy combatants (no uniforms, not observing conventional rules of war, etc.), and they have no rights under our Constitution. Obama is asking for another terrorist attack by doing this, especially in New York City!

Posted by: Sheri at November 13, 2009 3:28 PM

Amazing how demanding the government perform its primary duty of defense means you're a "bed-wetter".

Posted by: Rob Crawford at November 13, 2009 3:32 PM

jjb:

As for sticking our noses in places we shouldn't. Tell that to the families of the USS Cole, families of embasy workers in Africa, the first twin tower bombings, 9-11 families..etc. If stating facts is racist so be it. Muslim countries like Saudi, Iran, Jordan, and others are forever stuck in the 5th or 6th centuries. They only have modern "things" because of the west. Hell, they can't even pump out the damn oil they own, the west does it for them. What have these countries contributed to the world in the last 100 years? Nothing. If it wasn't for "OIL" most would still be riding camels, and living in tents. Oh, and try walking through one of these countries in the middle east with a bible in your hand. Try spouting off about "womens rights" or "homesexual rights"...or any human rights. Hahahahha...have fun in prison baby.

Posted by: Sparky at November 13, 2009 3:34 PM

How's this for a theory? The Obama crowd hates opposition and would love to be able to use the courts to silence their opponents. Unfortunately, under normal circumstances, the people won't go for the transformational change necessary in the judicial system to do that. However, if they can accomplish those changes based on the necessity of bringing terrorists to justice, (and most people will accept almost anything to accomplish that goal) they then have the precedents and tools necessary to use against their perceived political enemies. Everything these people do is carefully calculated to achieve a political purpose, regardless of how obscure that purpose may be to most people at the time.

Posted by: HenryCameron at November 13, 2009 3:46 PM

If you can't convince them, then distract them. To demonstrate, "The moon really is made out of green cheese ... Oh look, a squirrel!"

The GOP is the stupid party. If we can't see that the KSM trial will serve as a media smokescreen so Congress can pass ObamaCare and Cap and Trade behind the American people's backs, then we deserve to be out of power.

Posted by: Lavaux at November 13, 2009 3:50 PM

Andy McCarthy:

... Today's announcement that KSM and other top al-Qaeda terrorists will be transferred to Manhattan federal court for civilian trials neatly fits this hidden agenda. Nothing results in more disclosures of government intelligence than civilian trials. They are a banquet of information, not just at the discovery stage but in the trial process itself, where witnesses intelligence sources must expose themselves and their secrets.

Let's take stock of where we are at this point. KSM and his confederates wanted to plead guilty and have their martyrs' execution last December, when they were being handled by military commission. As I said at the time, we could and should have accommodated them. The Obama administration could still accommodate them. After all, the president has not pulled the plug on all military commissions: Holder is going to announce at least one commission trial (for Nashiri, the Cole bomber) today.

Moreover, KSM has no defense. He was under American indictment for terrorism for years before there ever was a 9/11, and he can't help himself but brag about the atrocities he and his fellow barbarians have carried out.

So: We are now going to have a trial that never had to happen for defendants who have no defense. And when defendants have no defense for their own actions, there is only one thing for their lawyers to do: put the government on trial in hopes of getting the jury (and the media) spun up over government errors, abuses and incompetence. That is what is going to happen in the trial of KSM et al. It will be a soapbox for al-Qaeda's case against America. Since that will be their "defense," the defendants will demand every bit of information they can get about interrogations, renditions, secret prisons, undercover operations targeting Muslims and mosques, etc., and depending on what judge catches the case they are likely to be given a lot of it. The administration will be able to claim that the judge, not the administration, is responsible for the exposure of our defense secrets. And the circus will be played out for all to see in the middle of the war. It will provide endless fodder for the transnational Left to press its case that actions taken in America's defense are violations of international law that must be addressed by foreign courts. And the intelligence bounty will make our enemies more efficient at killing us.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NTVkN2ZhMTU0NzcwYWVmYTNmODI1ZTJjMTA1ZDFiODQ=

Posted by: JE at November 13, 2009 4:25 PM

The distraction thing makes no sense. Americans are wildly opposed to Obamacare. The only hope of getting this joke through the Senate is by convincing Senators that Obama will provide them cover for their Yes votes.

Undertaking such a plainly stupid and unpopular policy regarding terrorists will only lead to more voters questioning Obama's idiotic left-wing policies--a buffoon isn't much good for political cover. So how this would work as a distraction defeats me.

Posted by: spongeworthy at November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

I just can't see the defense wanting this trial to happen in NYC. I'm no criminal lawyer, but wouldn't there be strong grounds for requesting a change of venue? I suppose it would have to be somewhere where adequate security could be provided.

Posted by: MVH at November 13, 2009 4:51 PM

DJ,
RE: your "red meat". I always knew the "rule of law" Conservatives spouted during the Clinton years was nothing but Grade-A Bullshit. Thanks for the confirmation.

As far as Obama, the Democrats, and the upcoming elections: Who cares?
First of all, the only thing worse than Democrats ruling is if it was the even more "in the pocket of the corporatocracy" Republicans.
Secondly, it doesn't matter in the big picture because (as anybody paying even an iota of attention in the last 30 years can see) we are in the final throes of the American Empire.
Please take a bow for doing your part, and shine Reagan's halo for him while you're at it.

spongeworthy said:
Americans are wildly opposed to Obamacare.
---------------
In this sentence, the term "Americans" means insurance corporations and their lobbyists.

Posted by: Berto at November 13, 2009 5:19 PM

Just for the record...I voted for the other guy!

To quote our VP, GIRD YOUR LOINS!

Posted by: Lee at November 13, 2009 6:05 PM

Baseball Crank hits one out of the park.

Posted by: jp at November 13, 2009 6:16 PM

Great post. There sure are some uninformed leftards amongst your readership.

Posted by: JB at November 13, 2009 6:40 PM

This action more than any other taken by Obama has the greatest potential to destroy his presidency and cause great damage to the Democrat party. Hillary and Bill are no doubt privately licking their chops at the very real possibilty that Obama, our Bufoon in Chief, will not be the nominee of his party in 2012.

Posted by: Jerry M at November 13, 2009 8:16 PM

Where is Dexter?

Posted by: MiddleOfMyTether at November 13, 2009 10:12 PM

Post 9/11/2001 There was a NYC marathon which I participated in. First weekend in November. The city was bit on edge and was tasked with providing protection for the 30,000 marathoners and their families meeting them at the finishing point near Tavern on the Green. Large groups of people were considered targets. An enormous length of Central Park West used as a staging point for the finish for runners and families was closed to automobile and truck traffic by bumper to bumper garbage trucks, dumpster trucks and dump trucks filled with sand. Every side street was closed with this method. Also the piers where the families and victims of 9/11 were being provided services on the west side of Manhattan were protected by bumper to bumper steel barges cabled together. There was intensive presence of police in both places. This method should tie up traffic quite well.

Posted by: ice at November 13, 2009 10:38 PM

Crank,

Your post really brought the loons out of the woodwork. However, compared to Don Surber you were relatively gentle on the mistake of last November. http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/archives/3736#more-3736

Posted by: Largebill at November 13, 2009 11:18 PM

Why are the wing nuts always so afraid of things?

Posted by: magrooder at November 14, 2009 11:33 AM

magrooder,
Here's their story in a nutshell:
The terrorists hate us for our way of life.
That's why we need to change our way of life, so the terrorists won't get us.

And that is how they "fight terrorism".

All you have to do is say "boo!", and they run and hide under their beds faster than College Republicans run from a military recruiter.

Posted by: Berto at November 14, 2009 1:13 PM

To add to what some others have said, how are these guys ever going to be convicted or even get to have a trial/

Ok I am not a lawyer. All I know is what I see on Law & Order plus I watched the OJ trial. If we could not convict OJ, how the heck are we going convict these guys in a criminal court?

As stated before, how does the judge handle the following:

-"Caught" outside the US and no legal authority to take to Gitmo
-"Arrested" by military personeel who had no legal juritistiction or authority
-No arrest warrent
-No search warrent
-No indictment by Grand jury
-No Miranda rights given
-Interrogation w/o lawyer present
-Means of getting information not according to our criminal laws
-Kept w/o charging for many months/years
-Defense lawyers unable to question arresting "officers", witnesses, etc.

Some of you lawyers out there, tell us how any evidence can be allowed by the judge? How does the judge (assuming he uses normal criminal process) not just let these guys go free?

Posted by: Lee at November 14, 2009 2:06 PM

It's clear that the Obama administration's decision was, if not intentional, a strategic blunder by all accounts. Crank and a few of the commenters here have already mentioned the multitude of reasons why this is a bad idea. But WTF - in New York?!?! How's that for blowing millions of dollars of our own money in security alone for what's bound to be a circus trial. Even if the man's guilty (which he would have been already in a military tribunal), Al Qaeda will have already profited by the trial alone.... look up Jon Kyl's remarks on the Rahman trial not too long ago and how they benefited from intelligence revelations coming forth from that trial.
On second thought... what if this Obama idiocy was intentional? Scary thought, indeed.

Posted by: Peter FL at November 14, 2009 2:17 PM

Personally (and I know this is politically incorrect, so bear with me, bluebloods and chickenhawks on both sides), I hope that torture is put on trial in NYC.

In a just system, KSM and anyone else who gave confessions under duress will be acquitted. I hope he is acquitted (IF he only admitted to stuff when under duress); it will vindicate me and the rest of us in the armed services who warned that torture will lead to blowback.

Now bluebloods and hand-wringers, I understand you think KSM is guilty. That's fine, and it is your right to hate someone who most likely is a bad man. However, in this country, you are innocent until PROVEN guilty.

Something most of us learned.

Posted by: Ryan82nd at November 14, 2009 3:35 PM

There is no way the DOJ will try to use evidence obtained by torture and I have to believe they have sufficient admissible evidence to convict under the Federal Rules of Evidence.

A federal district judge also has ample authority to control his or her court room and keep KSM and the others from turning it into street theater.

Posted by: magrooder at November 14, 2009 4:58 PM

TO RESPOND TO THE REST OF CRANK'S RANT:

Blow up the World Trade Center and kill 3,000 Americans? Jail! – HAD BUSH/CHENEY NOT CORRUPTED THE DETENTIONS THROUGH TORTURE WE MIGHT NOT BE IN A POSITION WHERE WE HAVE TO HIGHLIGHT OUR DUE PROCESS
Don't buy health insurance? Jail! – ARE YOU NOW CHANNELING PRINCESS SARAH; TOO ABSURD TO DESERVE RESPONSE
Win the Nobel Prize for doing jack squat. Travel to Copenhagen to beg and grovel unsuccessfully for the Olympics, and pledge to go visit Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but blow off traveling to Berlin to commemorate the victory of freedom over Communism (then give a tepid speech on the subject that refuses to acknowledge Ronald Reagan). – ITS NOT HIS FAULT THE NORWEGIANS VOTED FOR HIM; OLYMPICS IN RIO WILL BE A LOGISTICAL AND SECURITY NIGHTMARE AND HE WAS TRYING TO HELP A US CITY, JAPAN IS AN IMPORTANT ALLY (ONE YOU MISS A COUPLE OF SENTENCES LATER), THE VICTORY OVER COMMUNISM HAD MORE TO DO WITH GORBECHOV THAN REAGAN
Commemorate the 70th anniversary of the Soviet invasion of Poland by unilaterally abandoning missile defense installations in Poland. – THE MISSILES WERE OBSOLETE AND UNNECESSARY
Insult and disdain one faithful ally after another - Britain, India, Israel, Poland, Colombia, you name it - and cozy up to our enemies, with nothing to show for it - nothing to show for anything he's done in foreign affairs. – I SUPPOSE TO A CHICKEN HAWK NEO-CON HAVING PEOPLE BELIEVE IN OUR COUNTRY AND OUR IDEALS IS NOTHING; IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU JUST HATE AMERICA
All but ignore democratic protests in Iran while supporting an illegal effort by Honduras' president to stay on beyond the end of his term – NEITHER COUNTRY IS SUFFICIENTLY HIGH A PRIORITY FOR SOMEONE STILL CLEANING UP ALL OF BUSH’S MESSES
Suddenly complain about corruption and electoral fraud in Afghanistan, while seeking the favor of Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadenijad and Vladimir Putin - heck, Obama endorsed half a dozen people in Chicago more corrupt than Hamid Karzai. – CORRUPTION IN AFGHANISTAN COMPLICATES, IF NOT MAKES IMPOSSIBLE, A SUCCESSFUL END TO OUR INTERVENTION, THE OTHERS ARE LESS IMMEDIATELY IMPORTANT; TYPICAL HYPERBOLE FROM THE RIGHT
On and on and on we go, with President Apology constantly straining to run down his country's record and talk up the propagandized view of history of its enemies.
He's taken more time to "evaluate" General McChrystal's recommendations about Afghan policy than it took George W. Bush to invade Afghanistan and capture Kabul after September 11. HERE’S WHY, READ SLOWLY – IF YOU WANT TO BE POSITIONED FOR A SUCCESSFUL END GAME IT IS IMPORTANT TO GET THE EARLIER STEPS RIGHT. OR, YOU COULD JUST TELL YOURSELF “WE’LL BE GREETED AS LIBERATORS,” “THE INSURGENCY IS IN ITS LAST THROES” AND JUST F**K IT UP/
It would be funny if it wasn't tragically stupid and bound to get people killed. There is no mistake of our past that Obama is unwilling to remake. – ACTUALLY JUST THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE.

Posted by: magrooder at November 14, 2009 5:09 PM

I'm trying to look at this on the bright side- if the terrorists backing KSM should strike, they're going take out a lot of folks who think like jjb.

Posted by: trentk269 at November 15, 2009 2:00 AM

Wow the libtards are out in force. It is always funny listening to them talk about defense intelligence issues as if they have any idea what they are talking about.

Posted by: dch at November 15, 2009 2:24 AM

Wow the libtards are out in force. It is always funny listening to them talk about defense intelligence issues as if they have any idea what they are talking about.

Posted by: dch at November 15, 2009 2:24 AM

"I love America and am proud of it! It's the best system and country in the world!"

"Oh wait, you actually want it to do things that other countries have no problem doing? Well hang on just a second there."

You're a complete coward and shouldn't have the right to call yourself an American since you clearly don't believe in its justice system. Trial by jury was looked upon by the founding fathers as the most thorough and principled form of justice ever conceived, and to dismantle it in the most heinous situations is to admit that it isn't fit for modern crimes.

And you don't hate the founding fathers, now do you?

Fucking moron.

Posted by: Dylan at November 15, 2009 8:40 AM

Dylan-

Since when did enemy combatants deserve a full US civilian trial? Did the pilots who bombed Pearl Harbor deserve it? Why weren't any of the Japanese gov't tried in Hawaii in a civilian court with full US citizenship rights? Better yet, why did Obama state emphatically and in fact support a military tribunal for KSM when he was a senator?

Why have military tribunals been a part of the US justice system since the days of George Washington?

You might want to watch who you call a fucking moron when you are clearly clueless.

Or don't. Kind of fun to point at you liberals and laugh.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 15, 2009 9:58 AM

I find the various comments interesting that since these individuals were not treated (since their instant of capture) with the full rules of our criminal justice system that they should go free to kill again and the US should be "punished" for not applying it's criminal justice rules to these people.

The basic premise is that if you believe in the constitution then you must believe that it (and all of the rules connected to it in our criminal justice system) applys in all circumstances where guilt and innocent is being determined. This is independent of whether the person is American or not. It also applies no matter what the circumstances. There are no exceptions. This is naive.

I totally believe in the US Constitution. The framework it has proved has let the people of the US make this country great. Having said that, it does not have provisions for all circumstances. Its rules (and the rest of our criminal justice system) are based on some assumptions of behaviors of citizens and countries. It does not attempt to cover terrorist’s organizations who know no country barriers, follow no rules, and adhere to no rules of war. The circumstances of pursuit, capture, detention, and final judgment are not the same as for “criminals”. Applying the rules of our criminal justice system to these circumstances is insane.

IMO, how we have captured, interrogated, and detained these people has not violated our honor nor tainted our country. I think we have done the best we could given who we are fighting and the circumstances of the “war”. We have adapted (not violated) to modern circumstances.

Posted by: Lee at November 15, 2009 10:04 AM

Oh and it would also be helpful if you could explain why only some of the terrorists at Gitmo are getting the rights of US citizens and a civilian trial, the worst ones ironically, while others will get military tribunals. Obama can't explain it so your help would be appreciated.

Tell us all again what you know about the founding fathers. Should be enlightening.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 15, 2009 10:08 AM

What is Obama doing? Everyone knows the best reaction to when they "Blow up the World Trade Center and kill 3,000 Americans" is to have Condi Rice lie to the commission formed to investigate what happened, then promote her to Sec. of State. It shows the world that you take the lives of 3,000 Americans seriously. This is simple stuff.

Posted by: Berto at November 15, 2009 12:54 PM

Where the fuck do all these liberal retards come from? What a bunch of pussies.
I'm baffled as to why they think this is reasonable. Reading through jjb , berto, magoober and ryan82nd, you sound like you're from another planet. One populated chiefly by cowards and cockgarglers who lick Zinn's taint.
Ryan, if the 82nd refers to the army division, you're a disgrace to the Airborne.

Posted by: Lopan at November 15, 2009 1:42 PM

Those claiming this is a constitutional requirement should look up how Thomas Jefferson dealt with his "muslim problem" (Barbary Pirates) when he was president, and Google "letters of marque and reprisal." They might actually get an education.

This liberal notion of all conflicts as addressable in a criminal court fashion is just rank ignorance of history and reality beyond their sheltered lives.

Posted by: Nobody at November 15, 2009 3:25 PM

Lopjan,
You might want to have your psychologist meet you under the bed your hiding beneath and have him explain what the term "projection" means.

Posted by: Berto at November 15, 2009 5:21 PM

Berto, talk to your psychologist about the time your daddy came into your room and did, "the bad stuff" to you. Maybe next time you can move on to talking about being raped by your grandpa. Good luck!

Posted by: Lopan at November 15, 2009 10:34 PM

I am always surprised when I see berto posts on Sunday. Where in America are libraries open on Sunday?

Posted by: dch at November 15, 2009 10:44 PM

There can only be one possible explanation for this and that is Obama would prefer our military intelligence gathering apparatus be put on trial. Any idiot has to know any defense attorney is going to want full discovery, that the prosecution (i.e. the U.S. government, i.e. you and me ultimately) will have to bring to light all its counterterrorism methods. Obama must surely have this in mind as his goal. Don't believe it's some sort of altruistic display of "justice"--no, our stupid motherfucker president is still using the military commissions on others in Gitmo. So why some and not others? Also, if he is trying to show the world our system of compassion by proving we'll try in open court these warmongering terrorist pricks, that the action alone will show Muslims how fair we are or some such nonsense--well, we already did that in 1995 with the Blind piece of Sheik for the 93 bombing. How many terrorist attacks against us happened the next 6 years? This president is either the dumbest motherfucker to ever take the oath or he is intent on putting us on trial here. Take your pick, liberal idiots--and all the other morons who voted for this sack of shit.

Posted by: Brad at November 16, 2009 5:48 PM

"Ryan, if the 82nd refers to the army division, you're a disgrace to the Airborne.
Posted by: Lopan at November 15, 2009 1:42 PM"

Indeed it does. I've been getting called traitor and terrorist ever since 2004 when I politely warned my superiors about torture and protested against the wars (out of uniform of course). So I'm used to it.

Yeah I've got a target on my back but I actually think it is more cowardly to stay silent than it is to stand up for my values.

Posted by: Ryan82nd at November 16, 2009 6:37 PM
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