As I have noted before, Democrats are very proud of themselves for using the destruction of embryonic stem cells for medical research as a wedge issue, one that seems to have been a crucial factor in some of this year’s Senate races, notably Missouri. Conservative concerns about the horrifying incentives created by turning the tissue of unborn humans into an input in scientific research were brushed off as hysteria.
No longer; the inevitable is now with us:
Healthy new-born babies may have been killed in Ukraine to feed a flourishing international trade in stem cells, evidence obtained by the BBC suggests.
Disturbing video footage of post-mortem examinations on dismembered tiny bodies raises serious questions about what happened to them.
Ukraine has become the self-styled stem cell capital of the world.
There is a trade in stem cells from aborted foetuses, amid unproven claims they can help fight many diseases.
But now there are claims that stem cells are also being harvested from live babies.
Read the whole thing, in all its horrifying detail. Only those unfamiliar with human nature could have failed to predict this.
Those Democratic campaign consultants must be so proud. But then, they won the election, didn’t they?
This says way more about certain Ukrainians and you than it does about the Democrats.
Show me one officeholder in the U.S. who would not violently comdemn harvesting stem cells from aborted fetuses or live babies. They do not exist.
Looking to use frozen fetuses from fertility clinics is tremendously different from what is going on in the Ukraine. If this is true, then those who have done it are monsters. Absolute monsters.
Equating that with a politician in the U.S. who wants to help find cures for diseases is pretty low.
Also, seeking a link between the two where one does not exist is intellectually dishonest. The new congress has not even been sworn in yet.
Any evidence that these cells are making there way into the U.S.?
If not, then this horror has nothing to do with the U.S. at all.
Yes, the Dems won the election. I hope blaming them for this helps you sleep better at night.
Sometimes sick people need organ transplants. A new liver or heart valve can save a life. However, I’ve also heard horror stories of blackmarket organ dealers. Who’s best to blame for this? Doctors who specialize in organ transplants, the sick people that are looking for organs, the scientists and doctors who’ve come up with these extraordinary medical surgeries? Maybe you can link this back to democrats somehow also.
Crank, this post was ridiculous, and your slippery slope argument is not going to persuade anyone. Your post reads like something out of the Rush Limbaugh show. You are better than this.
Democrats are responsible for alleged murders in Eastern Europe because……sorry Crank, you lost me.
I don’t believe that democrats in the US are responsible for what is happening in Ukraine. The point is that when our society begins to devalue life and human moral values then an atmosphere is created where anything goes, including stealing babies and killing them in the name of research.
What is happening in Ukraine could be seen as a warning sign for what could happen in the US if we do not value the lives of children.
I don’t believe that democrats in the US are responsible for what is happening in Ukraine. The point is that when our society begins to devalue life and human moral values then an atmosphere is created where anything goes, including stealing babies and killing them in the name of research.
What is happening in Ukraine could be seen as a warning sign for what could happen in the US if we begin to devalue the lives of unborn children and babies.
Crank, I think you got used to talking into the response-free vacuum for so long that it further skewed your already strange outlook on the world.
Crank, this is without question (IMO) the worst post you’ve ever had on the site. I happy to see it widely condemned by your sensible readers.
First, what happens in the Ukraine has nothing to do with Democrats. Nothing. Yet you somehow draw a connection here? Preposterous. And then you go on to attribute this to unavoidable human nature? Which is it?
The slippery slope argument is, frankly, ridiculous. And that goes for you too, Michelle. In fact, I’ll take this BS reasoning, and turn it on you. If black markets like that in the Ukraine become the only source for stem cells, then the Republican position banning responsible research here actually encourages this behavior more than any “moral decline” allegedly perpetrated by Democrats.
Even, the broad point about political wedges is poor. If anything, I’d say that Republicans have introduced and used this issue as a wedge or GOTV tool more than Democrats.
I hope you’re as proud as your hypothetical “Democratic campaign consultants” for this crap.
First of all, organs are not whole human beings. That’s just a red herring.
Look, the problem arises when you do two things: overhype the potential research benefit of stem cells and devalue human lives by making them into raw materials for scientific research. No, I’m not saying that what happened in Ukraine is caused by Democrats in the U.S. But it certainly is down the same road that is paved when you argue that moral costs are irrelevant to the march of research. The Democrats have pressed this issue precisely because it involves the destruction of human life and thus can be expected to generate opposition. As more abuses inevitably arise in the future they will have a difficult time explaining how their position can admit of any limitations.
Re unfounded hope hyping: Edwards: ‘When John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk. Get up out of that wheelchair and walk again’…
Edwards made the unprecedented campaign promise during 30-minute speech at Newton High School gym in Newton, Iowa…
That was nonsensical and ill informed at best.
Sorry, that is weak. You have gotten to the point of connecting Democrats with this heinous activity (oh no, they didn’t actually go there and do the murders but their sinister legislation and campaigning paves the way for this to happen on live television here in the US). Perhaps you have not recovered from the ass-kicking GOP Inc took a month ago or you cannot get your head around the fact that the GOP is loaded with child molesters, those who would cover the child molesters’ asses, criminals, liars and generally morally bankrupt individuals. If these are the lengths you have to go to these days you have flipped freaking out.
What a shameful, hateful little post this is. You should be embarrassed.
Surprising how much ire this one post has riled. I thought giving credit to the Royals was MUCH more controversial…
Seriously, though, you cannot reject Crank’s slippery slope argument simply because it doesn’t suit you. The entirety of the embryonic stem cell debate is a clash between slippery slopes. Despite the fact that embryonic stem cell research has produced no useful science (and has little hope of ever doing so), the pro- side perseveres primarily because of a fear that a concession here would put us on a slippery slope of recognizing a human embryo as a human life. On the other side is the fear that an open acceptance of this practice leads us down the road we see in the Ukraine.
Crank’s argument is well-taken. Stop seething for a moment and you’ll recognize the logic.
Jim, pull it together. Please read your last post, then think about who is flipping out. The child molester stuff is especially troubling. Back on the meds, baby. And get your Dice K jersey asap!
Hey, maybe if you fetal stem cell advoctes can scream a little louder you’ll convince folks this could never happen here, right?
One problem–that’s not (yet) the issue. Live babies are being harvested for fetal stem cells. The Donks used fetal stem cells as a wedge issue. Fetal stem cells have cured to date nobody of anything, yet you guys sold them as a miracle.
Guess what, the slippery slope exists whether you like it or not. You can pretend there’s no moral issue here if it means winning an election, but there is a moral issue and it’s staring you in the face. Go ahead and scream, loud, now, and maybe no one will notice.
Oh, and good luck!
Crank,
You seemed to have hit a nerve. Excellent Post and response.
“The slippery slope argument is, frankly, ridiculous. And that goes for you too, Michelle. In fact, I’ll take this BS reasoning, and turn it on you. If black markets like that in the Ukraine become the only source for stem cells, then the Republican position banning responsible research here actually encourages this behavior more than any “moral decline” allegedly perpetrated by Democrats.”
What “responsible research” did the Republicans ban? The Republican congress simply declined to fund research that is has no proven results on a federal level and would kill additional embryos. Embryonic stem-cell research is (sadly) funded heavily by several state governments, most notably California. Also several national governments (which lack the competition required by the corporations who know better then to do the research) fund the research.
This means there is in fact demand for some embryonic stem cells and renders your point utterly false.
My problem isn’t the sad fact that something good inadvertently led to something bad it’s that something bad is happening for absolutely no reason at all. That happens all the time This obsession regarding embryonic stem-cell research seems not be based for many people not upon medical science but rather abortion politics and that is absolutely pathetic.
Uh, Abe. Mark Foley.
Jim, Mark Foley is one man, not more men than Gerry Studds. “Loaded with” usually implies more than one.
Also, who protected Foley? You mean this guy?
Foley was a piece of trash. But both Dem and Rep leadership had access to the emails. Dems held them for months until they could be used for maximum benefit ahead of the election. Classy. And who is it that Foley is accused of actual molesting? Right. Nobody. Meanwhile Gerry Studds was warmly remembered by both Senators from the “Great” state Of Massachusetts. I recall he went a bit further over the line than Foley, no? But that’s all good. He’s your boy. Your molesting boy, that is. Plenty of reason to dislike the Republican party, but the party of child molesters? Uh Jim, no.
You want to get into the Mark Foley defense business? No one else does. What he did, under current statute, was criminal. You, big on the slippery slope, believe he was just a drunk, porn-writing to adolescents, only-having-sex-with-over-18-former-pages kind of guy? Fine. In that case I will back off the child molester stance. If you don’t think GOPers had way more to do with covering this up than the Dems you are completely deluded.
As to the other elements of your party, how about your wonderful pastors such as the wildly hypocritical and apparently flamboyant Ted Haggert. Not much talk of him and his weekly phone calls with the White House on this site. How about the GOPers going to the slam that the GOP is more than happy to still have in the party and serving their constituents (at least the Dems disown them).
If you are going to thrown mud about stuff that happened in a different part of the world and tack it on to the Democratic party you have to expect to be slapped back for that. Your post was insulting and juvenile, your defense of it half-hearted and completely weak and I would love for you to post some Mark Foley Defense Fund topics in the near future.
“Foley was a piece of trash.” If that’s your definition of a defense you are mentally incapable of debate, cya.
Jim, you seem incapable of grasping the difference between defending Foley and arguing that his conduct was not of a nature that should automatically disqualify his entire party from holding office.
Unlike the stem cell issue, the subject of this post, nobody in the GOP has advocated for Foley-like conduct or for anything that would lead to it or enable it.
The topic of this thread was how wildly inapproriate and stupid your intial post was. My response is that you have been brain-damaged by the beating your party took in the last election, in part, because of your party having and harboring politicians, enablers and power-brokers like Foley, Hastert and Haggert. If you want to step up and defend Foley and the GOP for covering this like a fumble on the 2 yeard line, that’s your business. I would not be the least bit surprised to see you do it (although I have found it funny that you have taken pains to avoid even mentioning it).
You brought up a news story, attached it to Dems (although you say you did not), people think you are a jackass for doing so and you don’t like you and the GOP being called out for stuff like this. Sorry. When you act like a dip**** you get called on the carpet.
Jim, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year. If you are interested in discussing issues raised I look forward to your next comment. If your still blinded by your rage, move on. Koskids will love you, or just get help. Best to you and yours, and Jeff Freakin Suppan.
Abe, I am always amused by your failed attempts at humor and sarcasm. Your consistently off/missing the point comments are one of the reasons I keep coming back. Happy Holidays (of course) and here’s to a more peaceful world in 2007.
“Happy Holidays (of course) and here’s to a more peaceful world in 2007.” Same to you, Jim, Sincerely.