Quote of the day, from Michelle Malkin:
I believe Trig was born to Sarah Palin. I believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. I believe fire can melt steel and that bin Laden’s jihadi crew – not Bush and Cheney – perpetrated mass murder on 9/11. What kind of kooky conspiracist does that make me?
What if it could be proven that Obama wasn’t born in the US? Would we then overturn the election results? That would make the turmoil of 2000 election look tame.
It’s a little late to be arguing this guy really wasn’t born here. For some reason a local paper (the Philadelphia Bulletin) has signed onto this dubious cause.
I do too. However, 3 of those things have had good documentation produced about them(including Hawaii’s government). One of them was not, intentionally, in order to hope to gain one more bit of campaign leverage.
You don’t shut down morons by saying ‘no no, sure I did, and you can trust me because I say it is.’ You prove it. Even then, some morons will continue to believe what they want, but you shove them even further to the side.
The funny thing is that all four are objectively provable and only the first — the easiest to prove — has not yet been so proven.
“The funny thing is that all four are objectively provable and only the first — the easiest to prove — has not yet been so proven.
Posted by Magrooder at December 5, 2008 6:31 PM ”
Mac,
What proof do you need that a candidate’s child is actually the candidate’s child? Did you (or other like minded folks like Andrew Sullivan) ask for proof of paternity for McCain’s, Obama’s or Biden’s kids? Probably not, huh?
The origin of the rumor of Obama’s birth overseas is his Kenyan grandmother. I don’t believe her. Maybe something was lost in the translation. Maybe granny was just misremembering. Maybe she was bragging in order to turn the hometown into a tourist destination. No one in the Palin family has made any comment that could lead to the ridiculous speculation by internet idiots about the birth of her child.
Anyone who spent any time actually speculating as to whether the kid was Palin’s needs to step away from the computer for a while and do some serious reflection on their mental health and gullibility.
Largebill,
The reason there is speculation is because, primarily, Palin’s stor[ies] about the events leading up to the birth are inherently unbelievable. Also, as I pointed out, it is a story easily proven, yet Palin has not deigned to resolve the issue.
As to why it is an issue for her, in addition to the above, she made the birth and the baby an issue and she has made similar claims about her prior political opponents (you, sauce for the goose . . .).
I’m unaware that Obama’s birth certificate has ever been provided, although a forgery/facsimile of the short form certificate has been up on the internet. But then, much of his documentation is missing–student records and the like. Probably just an oversight.
Dai, Keep searching for the bogeyman.
Palin has not provided ANYTHING.
Magoo:
Palin’s life is wide open, while Obama’s is largely covert. She has, for instance, not written a memoir containing significant fictional portions. Figure out which one has need to display records.
In addition, Trig’s birth, which seems to be what you are obsessed with, can be classified as a personal matter, but the chosen one’s circumstances of birth are a concern of the supreme law of the land.
A personal anecdote: My wife offered a young female of our acquaintance the wishbone from Thanksgiving’s turkey. It was declined, because the girl had recently tried the trick with a chicken’s wishbone, and her wish hadn’t been granted. Imagine that–a bright young lady not yet five years old but she has already learned more wisdom than the typical Obama voter.
Magrooder, what you refuse to acknowledge is the fact that those of you who want to believe Trig Palin isn’t Sarah Palin’s son — a position you now hold without any sort of reason, since the conjectured motive for the imagined deception has been debunked — will not accept anything as proof, because there is nothing that can be offered as proof that you won’t find some reason to reject. Hospital records? Could be doctored. Video of the birth? Could be faked. There’s no reasonable justification for swimming in Andrew Sullivan’s fever-swamp as it is; the only reasonable conclusion from the public record is that the baby is exactly who the baby is supposed to be. But you prefer to believe what you prefer to be true, and proof cannot overcome your preference.
I believe all three of these things, and a fourth: that Malkin is still a moron.
I am not saying that I beleive Trig is not Palin’s son. I don’t really care one way or the other. My comment was merely that the one of the four most easily proven has not been proven.
Ancient Mariner, WHAT public record? Palin’s half-baked speech and trip acorss the country leaking amniotic fluid? The entire record is Palin asserting that there is a record.
Dai, I am going to enjoy the next four years as you fulminate aginst President Obama, our commander-in-chief!!
Not only is Malkin a moron, the column cited by Crank is rather trite.
“My comment was merely that the one of the four most easily proven has not been proven.”
Really?! In what order would you rank these as ‘easiest to prove’. I would think it much easier to prove fire can melt steel (after all, steel mills do it all the time, and the melting points of the different steels are all well accepted). What specific evidence would it take to prove Palin’s maternity to a magrooder?
Motely Tool,
Um, let’s see. A medical record. Remember, Palin promised to release all her medical records before the election. Of course, she had no intention of doing so. But, if she had, presumably, the question would have been answered.
As for fire melting steel, you would need to know the alloys used in the WTCs, the approximate temperature of the fire and, presumably, some other physical facts. Now, it seems likely that somewhere in the post-9/11 investigations, these questions were answered. But, I’ll bet birth records at Mat-Su are much easier to find.
Naaah – any medical records proffered will need to be scrutinized, right? Because THEY might forge them and THEY can’t be trusted.
Besides, your comment admits that you already know that fire can melt steel, you just don’t know at what temperature. Whereas your history suggests you wouldn’t just accept her medical records at face value, you’d want them investigated further. Maybe you should go lighter on the hyperbole and admit the technical data is already proven.
As for the WTC, you and the Truthers need to remember that it is not necessary to melt the steel structure of the building for it to collapse. Steel gets weaker as it is heated, a fire doesn’t have to get anywhere near the melting temperature of steel to cause it to fail under the weight load of the floors it was still supporting (without even accounting for the structural damage to the beams themselves). Maybe you’ve seen a blacksmith just get a steel bar hot before he’s able to bend it himself – that fire is not nearly as hot as the melting point of steel. So as far as the WTC is concerned, fire didn’t have to melt the steel, it only had to heat it up.